15mm Firebase (Work In Progress)

Current quarantine project is a 15mm Firebase. Early stages, I have a bunch of resin casts from Flashpoint at the moment...Jimmie sold them to me in bulk as he was just bringing the new pieces online. A lot of them are pretty rough casts but for the price I ain't complaining. Also a set of barbed wire emplacements from Battlefield Accessories (not for the fire base, just they were in the same box).

It looks like you’re on your way.

Tom

Good start, can't wait to see it all put together.

Making progress. I need to do some detailing to each piece, but my goal right now is to get all the peices I have painted to a simple table top standard. Then I can do more detailing and weathering later.

Base colors finished:



Fighting position:



Bunker:

Good work! Lots of it too.

Tom

I'm planning on making a 3' x 4' terrain board, so this is just the tip of the iceberg! I want it to look like like a garbage dump the way real firebases did !

Howdy ! , late to the brief ! .. this looks fantastic ! I'm looking forward to seeing the terrain boards ! In doing these pieces I went for a modular approach with the idea that they could be used as a stand alone piece of terrain or as building materials for something bigger . here I have built another position on top of one of the sandbagged bunkers , and used a roof piece to add OHC to an open topped position (to the left )

For planning firebase building I tried a few layouts in a photo conversation with a friend ; I have gone for using modular pieces so I can interpret the pieces how I need for varied layouts . I was doing layouts of fortification pieces (without figures ; or as old training sergeants say : a "Practical Exercise Not Involving Soldiers" ..or PENIS ) to discuss the best way of laying out various perimeter frontages with depth ; including the mechanics of adding wire and minefields out the front . This is my "modular" approach .




The discussion was more about depths and frontages to make a big firebase work (in 15mm), you can see how 'crowded' things start to get once you are accounting for extras (apart from fighting positions) such as Platoon HQ's , ammo bays , etc ,;; and we hadn't even gotten to the layer of "Rear Base" behind this ; which will be ; barracks, mess , motor pool , admin , water tower etc .

We also had a talk-through of what you would need to do to add armoured vehicles' positions to the 'line ; including the room you need to maneuver them in .

just adding a few more pics of my PENIS







and a layout from a game ;  



In this layout the scenario was meant to be to protect a LZ (open area in left foreground) , and an artillery battery (right foreground) , and a police roadblock post (just off to the right out-of-shot).
Occupying the hill to the front are three rifle platoons (front left , front right and depth ;who also have OP/LP duty out to the front and flanks) and a Battalion CP (with the only working Night vision) with a 81mm mortar (for flares mostly) , a 106mm RCL (with beehive rounds too) and a .50cal HMG in the front left bunker ...Each of the perimeter towers has a M60 team and a particular arc of responsibility or gate to watch (but no NV) .

That looks good. You have a lot of pieces. Originally, without giving it any thought, I just assumed a game with any type of fire base or whatever would be the complete perimeter, all 360 degrees.

Then I saw a scenario for the NVA attack on Firebase Airborne which supported the attack on Hamburger Hill. It was a scenario with just a section of the perimeter, but like your layout, had a good bit of depth. It was a good way to have a game.

Tom

That's why I'm going for a 4 piece board and modular components. The board will allow me to have sunken trenches. With 4 pieces I can use 1 in a corner of a table, 2 for half a base and 4 for a full base.

To get room to maneuver, I might run 2 half games. Use two 6x8 tables with a gap down the middle and two attacks from opposite sides.

I always want flexibility, which is why permanent terrain boards are not by thing. Plus I can use all the components for other periods - WW2, SciFi, Cold War wtc.

Good plan. Sunken trenches are wonderful.

Remember my sand table? That was one of the reasons I made that big mistake. Your way is better.

Tom

I'm going to loosely base my layout on Firebase Roy. With the many hundreds of bases created and abandoned thru the war, any layout you can think of is probably "realistic."

I don't think I've ever hear of Roy. It looks like they sure moved a lot of dirt.

Tom

Garryowen wrote:That looks good. You have a lot of pieces. Originally, without giving it any thought, I just assumed a game with any type of fire base or whatever would be the complete perimeter, all 360 degrees. Tom

yes that's a lot of pieces , and it escalates quickly depending on how much detail you want to add ; even for a length of perimeter . I have more now. I quickly accumulate 'seconds' pieces that I wouldn't sell for whatever QC reason.

?? So how to represent a firebase without needing too much stuff ? AND how to make the stuff multipurpose / reusable  ? or relatively generic ? .. our discussion went the way of representing a portion of a firebase .      

If a basic firebase template looks something like this ;



( borrowed from ; 'Fire Support Bases Vietnam " ; Bruce Picken )

then the solution seemed to be to "just" represent a portion of the base perimeter ; eg ; only what is above the red line ;



.. this is the simplest template we could find ; if you start adding features like vehicle or SP gun positions, ammo points (and the ability to resupply guns by vehicle) , tentage , POL points , a LZ , somewhere for the medics , ..then things get more complex, you need some open spaces and you need to squash everything else into whatever space you might have.

All said ; every firebase etc  has got to be a different problem ;  I love seeing pics like this photo of firebase Roy here ; it looks like they have flattened a mountain to make it work . I assume they drove those SP guns up there ? Wow !

Yeah these things are hard to get right on the table. FSB Kramer was considered quite large with a 250m diameter. At 1" = 10 yards that's a cozy 2 feet. Even in 15mm 4 guns with sandbagged pits, and a few bunkers (CP, medic, fire control) and things start to get cramped.

FSB Crook was only 80 meters is diameter and held 6 guns, mortars, an infantry company and supporting personnel. Good description of the layout at page 103 here:

http://webdoc.sub.gwdg.de/ebook/p/2005/CMH_2/www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/vietnam/tactical/chapter8.htm

Crook had 24 bunkers around the perimeter! Again, at 1" = 10 yards all of that fits in to an 8" circle!

Ground scale has to sort of go out the window on a project like that. Or else change the movement and ranges for your game to fit the area you need to have a somewhat realistic looking FSB.

Tom

That is some great info, especially on the FSB construction. Now a pic I saw of a Chinook with a observation tower hanging beneath it flying out near Dak To makes sense!

8" is a tiny base, may want to double that ground scale.

Garryowen wrote:Ground scale has to sort of go out the window on a project like that. Or else change the movement and ranges for your game to fit the area you need to have a somewhat realistic looking FSB. Tom

Yes ; this was the motivation for laying out a few versions of a firebase perimeter and then seeing how it worked . Our main measure was a movement bound of 6 inches. (in 15mm) .

Also ; the idea that from the perspective of a Company Commander (the player) ; who's task it will be to hold a section of perimeter and maybe still have some depth ; you will likely have either two platoons forward and one in depth (maybe with a squad or two missing and manning a OP/LP forward of the wire ). so we were playing around with the question ; what does two rifle platoons look like dug in on a perimeter ? , then add a Company CP , etc etc

then add to that ; the Battalion assets (eg. CP + mortars + ammo ) or 'Higher up' assets (eg. artillery positions + FDC + ammo )  which will be the company commander's (the player) task to protect . ..AND ... base defences organic to the FSB like observation towers + gunnery that have their own orders + arcs etc. and will essentially be independent of the player .

.. so the game is oriented to the role of the 'company Commander' who's task is to occupy a section of firebase perimeter with his 3 Platoons + CHQ  ; other 'liability' units and 'organic defences' are not in the command of the player. ..but need to be protected (and retaken if need be) , and will engage enemy targets on their own ROE.    

The intention being to 'limit' the game to a play-out of a single Company Commanders role .
This avoids needing to represent a whole Battalion (ie three times as much stuff + more) and arty positions + liability units,  for a whole firebase and keeps it to a more manageable Company -sized game.

( it also creates the opportunity to introduce a new player in the role of base defence player ; his troops will sit in bunkers and blaze away for most of it )

Fwiw ; we use a convention that one artillery piece model + fortifications may represent two positions ; this helps to reduce the need to space inside the perimeter. (so a six tube battery can be represented by three positions + CP )

Fwiw2 ; "footprint" was the biggest design consideration for the 15mm 'FWF fortifications' terrain pieces we came up with at Flashpoint Minis.
This is why we went down the path of not trying to make lift-off roof bunkers for the most part. It swelled the footprint of the pieces when trying to get a 30x30mm base accommodated.
Seeing 50x30mm BF bases are now the most common, we figured to make solid bunkers with a smaller footprint rather than bigger bunkers. (to try to accommodate the 50x30mm bases.)
.... That said, we do make a CP bunker piece that will accommodate a 50x30mm (and a 20x30mm base , or three 30x30mm bases) and have made a few different 40x40mm 'roof' pieces to add Overhead Cover if you wanted to scratchbuild bunkers using components like sandbag walls , fuel drums and ready-made roofing .
Considering we wanted to make pieces that would work for a permanent US firebase (think ; a generous issue of defence stores : plenty of sandbags and corrugated iron sheeting), a temporary firebase ( a more basic issue of defence stores but down to OHC for HQ elements ),  and something like a special forces / CIDG 'firebase' or 'strategic Hamlet' in which the CP might have OHC but other "bunker" roofs might only be thatched .    

We wanted to make a 15mm custom bunker-making 'kit' , rather than every permutation of fighting position, bunker and CP you might need .  

Most of my 15mm stuff (and my playing buddies) are based on 30x30mm bases, especially elements such as mortars , HMG and RCL's that might want to use a prepared fighting position.



...this is a lift-off roof bunker I made up using a mortar pit as the base; it is now intended as a NVA AAMG position ; so the roof is intended to be a removable camo-hide . To accommodate a 30x30mm base the footprint is hard to squeeze into 50x50mm




this is another approach to ARVN firebase building on a terrain base . ; built to accommodate for 50x30mm bases and 50x60mm arty bases.



here is someone else's approach to a Aussie temporary firebase . really nice job . .... same same , but completely different .

Lots of room to experiment. Some were built with trenches, some were built with berms. Just depended on where you were.

My troops are singly mounted. I am thinking of going with lift off roofs so we can put troops inside. My idea is you put in one ro two figs with a dice to represent numbers. So a team piles in and you put two figures there then a really small d6 for however many more there are.

But next step is the same as yours Jimmi: do a layout and see how crowded things get.

ExtraCrispy wrote:Also a set of barbed wire emplacements from Battlefield Accessories.

Mark,

We play war games every Friday night, a group called Peninsula Praetorians, at Mike Parkers' place, the guy who owns Battlefield accessories, he is a great guy and his stuff is awesome.

Is he still in business?

ExtraCrispy wrote:Is he still in business?

Absolutely, Here is a link to the Battlefield Accessories Website.

He has "leased" his old resin ranges to a local guy and mostly works in MDF products now with a few other bits and pieces thrown in like battle mats.

Not a lot there for the Vietnam era unfortunately.

Years ago Battlefield Accessories had a dealer in Fort Wayne, Indiana. I bought some things form him. He had some pretty good barb wire that I still use.

Tom