GarryOwen's Random Historical Notes

This is the official (and ongoing) thread of GarryOwen's very informative series Random Historical Notes which members from the old Fields of Fire site will be familiar with.

Take it away Tom.....

NOTES FOR VIETNAM WARGAMING
I had a number of installments under this subject in the previous version of Fields of Fire Reloaded. I thought I would bring it back. Most of these entries will have been on the old site, but some are new.

I find these useful for house rules and scenario rules. If someone were writing his own rules, they may be helpful too. They may also serve, in some cases, for a tool to resolve a rule interpretation in a game, or to fill in a gap in a rule set on a particular point. Sometimes they may help with painting or organizational questions.

Most I get just by making notes as I read. Most of my reading is done on the lowest tactical level, but some notes are a little more abstract than that. In some cases, I have specifically sought out information.

The internet is full of opinion stated as fact, much of which is inaccurate. I have given my sources in all cases. My citations consist of the author, the article and publication info, or in the case of a book, the author, the book title, and, of course the page.

I have generally reworded the source to avoid copyright violation or having to contact the source for permission to quote. I have not changed the content or meaning.

Many books come in different formats.
Note: 1. Unless otherwise stated, a book is the original edition, which may be hardback or paperback.
 2. pb is the paperback edition if the book was also done as a hardback.
 3.  bce is book club edition
I have indicated these distinctions as the pagination may vary among all three.

20MM CANNON
Reference is made to 20 mm shell fragments. Murphy, Dak To P157.

Skyraiders in 602nd SOS used armor piercing incendiary rounds with an explosive head in their 20mm guns. Marrett, Cheating Death,  p89

4.2 INCH MORTAR
Minimum Range 770 meters. Maximum Range 6840 meters. Based on FM 23-9090.

.50 CAL MACHINE GUN
The 50s provided good penetration through foxhole parapets. Rottman, Vietnam Gun Trucks Page p.23

.50s went through dikes. Nolan, The Battle for Saigon, p.87, pb

It could penetrate through two layers of sandbags, 16 inch diameter trees, 3 feet of loose earth parapet on a foxhole, dense brush and bamboo. Rottman, Vietnam Gun Trucks page 36

Some gun trucks carried quad 50s. To enable to have a longer period of sustained fire, they would normally be fired by using the two upper and two lower guns alternately. Rottman, Vietnam Gun Trucks page 36

.50 easily goes through a paddy dike and hits the guy behind it. Garland, A Distant Challenge, p. 194

Those (.51 rounds) that hit the bunker below me pulverized the concrete walls and shook the structure. Sandbags around me were hit and literally burst in an explosive spray of sand. Miller, Reflections of a Warrior, p. 102

Fifties were the only weapons Colonel Haponski  said could dependably penetrate bunkers. Unlike tank crews, ACAVs could dismount two or three crew men to engage bunkers with M-16s and grenades. That would leave the driver and track commander to maneuver the vehicle and fire the .50. Haponski, One Hell of a Ride,  p. 290

60MM MORTAR
60mm mortar middle range 300-400 meters. Moraldi, Uniforms and Equipment of U. S. Military Advisors in Vietnam, p. 47

M2 60mm mortar. Minimum Range 100 yds. Maximum Range 1935 yds. Based on TM 9-2005,

M19 60mm mortar without sight, bipod, or base plate was either drop fired or trigger fired. It’s HE round threw fragments in a 9 x 18 meter area. It could hit as close as 45 meters or as far out as 1,814 meters. Plaster, SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars, p.  145,146

60mm mortar minimum range 50 yards. Rottman, Mobile Strike Forces in Vietnam 1966-1970, p. 48

81MM MORTAR
81mm mortar on the 11 ACR mortar track could fire to within 50 yards of their own position. Nolan, Into Cambodia, p. 11 bce

Company's mortars (81mm) fired to within ten meters of the position. Garland, Infantry in Vietnam, p. 180

81 mm mortar fire placed 30 meters from unit's position. Marshall, Battles in the Monsoon, p. 49 bce

Minimum Range 70 meters. Maximum Range 4737 meters. Based on FM 23-90.

81mm mortar minimum range was 70 meters or 77 yards. Rottman, The U.S. Army in the Vietnam War 1965-1973, p. 56

Minimum range for it M29 81mm mortar was 76 yards. Doyle, Vietnam War Collectibles, p. 21

105MM HOWITZER
105mm howitzer rounds would hit within 50 yards of the friendly perimeter. Moore and Galloway, We Were Soldiers Once and Young, p. 7

C/2/12 Cav was supported by an artillery battery only 400 yards from the enemy. Hymoff, The First Air Cavalry Division in Vietnam, p. 81

NVA POWs said they did not particularly fear US artillery as long as they stayed in their bunkers. Haponski, One Hell of a Ride, p. 248

NVA considered the space 200-300 meters from the FWF's lines to be safe from artillery and fighter bombers as they would only be used closer than that in extreme conditions. Within that area, commonly their only danger was from enemy on the ground and helicopters. Haponski, One Hell of a Ride, p. 277

NVA in bunkers were immune to artillery fire unless it was a direct hit or nearly so. Haponski, One Hell of a Ride,  p. 298

106MM RECOILESS RIFLE
One of several instances of 106mm RR being manhandled. Hammel, Fire in the Streets, p. 228

106 mm recoilless rifle flechette rounds could be set to go off at various distances from where they were fired. Normal explosive rounds were not designed for use against personnel. One crew thought they knew where enemy personnel were located. A rubber tree near them would be selected as the target. If the round hit the tree, detonation would occur and perhaps some of the enemy would get hit. If not, at least they would duck back. Brennan, Headhunters,  p. 234

AC-47 SPOOKY
AC-47 Spooky. At least some flew without a rear door so the loadmaster could throw parachute flares out.  There was a second type of flare that was used as a reference point for adjusting fire. It burned for up to thirty minutes.
The three 7.62mm Gatling guns could fire on two speeds, 3,000 or 6,000 rounds per minute. Normally they fired 3,000 rounds per minute. One gun was usually kept off once all three had been tested. That kept it loaded. If they didn't need two at once, they fired one gun at a time, for a few seconds at a time. They could stay on station for up to 10 hours that way, the plane did not use much gas and they carried up to 40,000 rounds of ammunition. The guns were mounted at 12.5° below horizontal. Albracht, Abandoned in Hell, p. 164,165.

AERIAL ROCKET ARTILLERY
Description of how it works. Rosenburgh, Snake Driver, pp. 91-92, pb

Aerial rocket artillery from 1st Cav fired within 15 meters of friendly lines. Brennan, Headhunters, p. 18 bce

AIR CAVALRY DELTA COMPANY
D Troop had three platoons that were all the same. These platoons would have four machine gun jeeps, two 106mm recoilless rifle jeeps, a light truck with a mortar squad, another light truck with an infantry squad, and the platoon commander's jeep, which also had a machine gun. Brennan, Headhunters, p. 1 bce

D/1/9 usual platoon organization when patrolling roads. First two scout jeeps with M 60 machine guns led. Second was the recoilless rifle squad leader's jeep with a mounted recoilless rifle. Third was the lieutenant's jeep. Fourth was the mortar squad on a three-quarter ton truck. Fifth was the infantry squad on a three-quarter ton truck Sixth was the platoon sergeant's jeep with another 106 mm recoilless rifle. Seventh and eighth were two more scout troops bringing up the rear. At full strength this would be 40 men, but usually they only had about 30 to 35 men. Did all of the scout jeeps have M60s? Brennan, Headhunters, p. 233

AIR CAVALRY GUNSHIPS
1965 A/1/9 gunships had no doors. Brennan, Headhunters, p. 54 bce

1965 A/1/9 gunships had pair of flex guns mounted on each side. Brennan, Headhunters, p. 55 bce

Probably in November 1965 the captain commanding the gun platoon in probably A/1/9, fired the rockets and his 40 mm grenade launcher. It is not stated weather that grenade launcher was handheld or in a chin turret. Brennan, Headhunters, p. 59 bce

November 1965 A/1/9 got a flex gun kit with eight rockets. Plt CO had 40mm grenade launcher. (Chin turret or handheld?)  Brennan, Headhunters, p. 59 bce

It was not uncommon for a Cobra form 1/9th Air Cavalry to hover in front of a bunker and fire, its minigun into the aperture. Brennan, Headhunters, p. 3 bce

The scouts and Huey door gunners knocked out bunkers with grenades dropped directly from above.  Brennan, Headhunters, p.3 bce

The scouts and Huey door gunners used solid tracer ammo to get on target quicker. Brennan, Headhunters,  p. 3 bce

Always at least two Cobras. Brennan, Headhunters, p. 3 bce

A/1/9 in late December 1966, had at least one gunship that was a Hog with a grenade launcher in the chin turret and 48 Rockets. At least one gunship was armed with 14 rockets and a pair of miniguns. Brennan, Headhunters,  pp. 94-95 bce

The noise of the gunships would alert Charlie and they would jump for cover. This made it hard to catch them unless Charlie was in the open. To catch Charlie in the jungle the gunship had to come over a mountain and see the enemy jumping off the trail into the jungle. Maybe they would not be quick enough. Brennan, Headhunters, p. 95 bce

OH-6s and Cobras in 1/9 Cav. Pilots would often end their tour before they could get checked out on these newer aircraft. This would be true of the pilots who arrived in probably March or April of 1967 with an end of tour in probably February 1968. Brennan, Headhunters, p. 165

In 1/9 gunships, more enemy were killed by the door gunners and crew chiefs than by the pilots. Brennan, Headhunters, p. 171

B/1/9 had at least one gunship with XM16 armament system as late as when the OH-58 had arrived. The narrator served in '67 and '68. Brennan, Headhunters, pp. 187, 193, 194

In 1968 the scouts in A/1/9  flew a mixture 0H – 13's and Hughes LOHs (OH-6). The gunship platoon was a mixture of Huey gunships and Cobras. The Huey gunships were mostly hog ships. In October 1968 most of the gunships were Cobras. Brennan, Headhunters, p. 240

In 1969, C/1/9 had at least one B model Huey  gunship. Brennan, Headhunters,  p. 261

AIR CAVALRY INFANTRY AND LIFT PLATOON
Seven Blues per slick. Holley, Aero-Scouts, p. 146, pb

Usually less than three seconds for Blues to get out of a slick. Mills, Low Level Hell, p. 39, pb

Slick pilots called in artillery on an LZ. Mills, Low Level Hell, p. 39, pb

The blue platoon often went out with fewer than 20 men, even though it was supposed to have 40 men, including the FO team and medics. It was rare to have more than 25 men in the aero rifle platoon. Brennan, Headhunters, p. 2 bce

The scouts and Huey door gunners used solid tracer ammo to get on target quicker. Brennan, Headhunters, p. 3 bce

The scouts and Huey door gunners knocked out bunkers with grenades dropped directly from above.  Brennan, Headhunters, p 3 bce

Blues commonly walked down trails in NVA country. It was the last thing the enemy expected. What was the enemy doing in his home camp or along his trail? This caused hesitation. Brennan, Headhunters, p. 5 bce

When Blues were inserted after the pink team made contact, they would go out as a full platoon more or less and search the area by squads. Brennan, Headhunters, p. 21 bce

Blues' standard ambush weapon was a 12 gauge riot gun with 00 buckshot. Brennan, Headhunters, p. 36 bce

In 1967–1968, the Bravo Blues (1/9) were a platoon of 17 to perhaps 30 guys. Around 25 was common. References made to "some" C-4 plastic explosive. That was in a sentence referring to  canteens, some grenades, 15 or 20 magazines and a Claymore bag. It sounds as though each soldier carried some C – 4. Brennan, Headhunters, p. 159

Hawk Flights were each Bravo Blues squad in a chopper landing in the boonies to check something out. Most of the time it was four or five guys. Their bravery came from the knowledge that their gunships were overhead. Brennan, Headhunters, p. 161


To be continued.....
Tom

Great stuff! Cheers.

Thanks ufb.

Tom

Lots of useful details.

Love it , keep it coming .

Thanks Jimmy. If I remember correctly you posted something similar on the previous edition of FoF.

While I did make these notes originally for my own interest and benefit, I have cleaned them up a good bit to post them here and it is time consuming. So it it nice to see some word of appreciation.

I'll add more right now.

Tom

Here comes the next installment.

The section Air Cavalry Scouts has some examples of historical notes that may cause you to want to modify some of your existing rules. It seems that both OH-13s and OH-6s should be harder to hit than other helicopters, particularly at really low level.

Those interested in the posts on 3/4 Cavalry may be interested in the section Armored Cavalry Tactics.

Tom

AIR CAVALRY SCOUTS
The observer in an H-13 in A/1/9 carried M60, M79 and all kinds of grenades. The observer hand held the M60 without a bungee cord. Modifications to the gun are described and shown in an illustration. Rosenburgh, Snake Driver, pp. 10-12, pb

OH6A was so quiet it could barely be heard until it was right on top of you. Mills, Low Level Hell, p. 40, pb

The weapons carried and where located. Mills, Low Level Hell, p. 41, 42, pb

Scouts would drop straight down from altitude then level out at 60 knots over the tree tops. Mills, Low Level Hell, p. 45, pb

Scout techniques discussed. Mills, Low Level Hell, p. 47, pb

At 80-90 knots, an OH6A did not have to worry too much about rounds hitting it. Mills, Low Level Hell, p. 111, pb

The scouts and Huey door gunners used solid tracer ammo to get on target quicker. Brennan, Headhunters,  p 3, bce

The scouts and Huey door gunners knocked out bunkers with grenades dropped directly from above.  Brennan, Headhunters, p 3, bce

Scout OH-13 flew over NVA, the observer leaned out and waved. None of the enemy fired a shot. Brennan, Headhunters, p 36, bce

At 45-50 mph, OH-13 at treetop level flew over the NVA so fast that the enemy had no time to fire, yet the observer could mark positions. Brennan, Headhunters,  p 36-37 bce

OH-13 would precede slicks to an LZ. The scout would find a likely spot for an MG and fly straight for it three or four feet off the ground. This kept the rockets aimed at the enemy and apparently the enemy was intimidated and did not fire. Brennan, Headhunters, p 37-38 bce

In the beginning, the scouts of 1/9 carried either eight rockets or a mounted M-60 machine gun on each skid. Brennan, Headhunters,  P 61 bce

In the Plei Me  campaign was when Capt. John Sabine of the scouts, started getting out of his chopper and going after Charlie on foot. When he captured one, a gunship would come down and pick up the prisoner. Brennan,  Headhunters,  p 61-62 bce

OH-6s and Cobras in 1/9 Cav. Pilots who arrived, probably in March or April 1967, were not there long enough to get checked out on these newer aircraft before their tours ended, probably in February 1968. Brennan, Headhunters, p 165

In 1968 the scouts in A/1/9  flew a mixture 0H–13's and Hughes LOHs (OH-6). The gunship platoon was a mixture of Huey gunships and Cobras. The Huey gunships were mostly hog ships. In October 1968 most of the gunships were Cobras. Brennan, Headhunters, p 240

Scout helicopters would dive from altitude of 1500 feet to treetop level as quickly as possible to avoid small arms fire. At 60 knots just above the trees, the enemy would only have a second to bring up their rifle and fire. Usually the scouts are over before Charlie could react. Haponski, One Hell of a Ride, p 245

AIR RESCUES
The rescue force preferred hilly jungle which allowed the use of terrain masking, denying the enemy clear vision of the Skyraider and Jolly Green. Marrett, Cheating Death, p 189

On rescue missions, all jet aircraft were able to be diverted from other missions. Very often their bombs could silence the enemy guns. When pilots were shot down, their jets normally broke up quickly so that when they parachuted out, they would be near enemy positions. Marrett, Cheating Death,  p 191

ANTI-AIRCRAFT FIRE
Flying fast and only ten feet above the treetops, as the 1/9TH did, made a hard target for the NVA. Brennan, Headhunters, p 195

ARMORED CAVALRY TACTICS
At FSB Doc, 1/4 Cav had one platoon of ACAVs and tanks outside the perimeter. It made counter clockwise circles around Doc, on line but echeloned to the right, attacking the assaulting NVA. Haponski, One Hell of a Ride,  p 201 et seq.

1/4 Cav C Troop, March, 1969 in the Michelin, platoons with 2-3 tanks and 6-7 ACAVs. Infantry was attached with one squad riding on the vehicles of each platoon. Haponski, One Hell of a Ride, p 242

A division cavalry squadron was organized differently than a regimental Cav squadron. The former had M-48 tanks integral to the troop and the latter did not. Haponski, One Hell of a Ride, p 289

Fifties were The only weapons Colonel Haponski  said could dependably penetrate bunkers. Unlike tank crews, ACAVs could dismount two or three crew men to engage bunkers with M-16s and grenades. That would leave the driver and track commander to maneuver the vehicle and fire the .50. Haponski, One Hell of a Ride,  p 290

The NVA bunkers in the March 30, 1969 Michelin Plantation battle were L shaped with the firing port at one end of the L and the entrance at the other. Flanking them the .50s on the tracks kept Charlie's head down. The .50s would penetrate through the logs and dirt of the overhead cover. As the tracks would pass by a gunner would lean over and drop a grenade down inside the bunker. Some of the track crew could be on the ground tossing grenades in the bunkers.  The bunkers rose two or three feet above the ground. Haponski, One Hell of a Ride, p 304-305.

After firing an M-48's main gun loaded with canister into a bunker aperture, there would be no recognizable body parts to count. Haponski, One Hell of a Ride, p 310

ARMY, REPUBLIC OF VIETNAM
ARVN in photo with a mixture of M1 carbines and M1 Garrand rifles. Buell, We Were There Vietnam pp. 8-9.

ARVN RANGERS
Even though the Ranger pattern ERDL camouflage uniforms were adopted by the ARVN Rangers (and the ARVN Airborne), some Ranger units continued to use duck hunter or tiger stripes. The Ranger pattern was produced in a variety of colors and shades. Moraldi, Uniforms and Equipment of U. S. Military Advisors in Vietnam, p 156

Many ARVN Ranger advisors opted to carry their own radios. Moraldi, Uniforms and Equipment of U. S. Military Advisors in Vietnam, p 157

B-52 ARCLIGHTS
B-52 "boxes " from a three plane flight were 1km x 3km, but these could be reduced to 1km x 2km or even 1km x 1km. For the larger box, the planes flew in echelon formation. For the smallest, they flew in trail formation. McKenna, Kontum, p 36

With the Combat Sky Spot radar system, enemy troops could be hit who were only 1km from friendlies. In extreme danger, Arc Lights could be brought to within 100 yards of friendly troops, but overpressure related injuries would be suffered. McKenna, Kontum, p 37

B-52 Arc Light. Excellent description of how they worked and the effects.  McKenna, Kontum, p 36-39

BANGALORE TORPEDOS
Photo of bangalore torpedoes captured at Khe Sanh. Buell, We Were There Vietnam,
p. 53

BEEHIVE ROUNDS
Beehive rounds didn't exist for the 155s. Albracht, Abondoned in Hell, p 119

BUNKERS
A bunker with one layer of rubber tree logs and a heaping pile of dirt might have taken a hit from a mortar round but not a heavier artillery shell. McDermott, True Faith and Allegiance, Page 69

37mm antiaircraft guns used as direct fire weapons destroyed ARVN Ranger bunkers. Veith, Black April, page 96.

NVA built sandbag bunkers in houses, against the back wall. They fired out the doorway. This hid the muzzle flash. You had to be in the doorway to see in. Hammel, Fire in the Streets, pp. 304, 305

VC used a heavily sandbagged bunker for a light machine gun in a field position. Hymoff, First Air Cavalry Division in Vietnam, p 87

LZ X-Ray. Marm ran into a 7 foot high NVA bunker. Hymoff, First Air Cavalry Division in Vietnam, p 30

Due to the smoke and debris that would be blown up from an RPG, COL Haponski doesn't think the NVA would often fire one from a bunker even if they had the two meters free space to the rear for the backblast. Sometimes the enemy built special bunkers with a large open port to the rear for the backblast. Haponski, One Hell of a Ride,  p 498

NVA officer took cover behind a bunker and directed his men from  there, lifting his head up to yell directions when the fire lifted. Haponski,  One Hell of a Ride, p 286

An artillery round with an impact fuse can destroy any bunker or foxhole it lands on. McKenna, Kontum, p 178

Fifties were the only weapons Colonel Haponski  said could dependably penetrate bunkers. Unlike tank crews, ACAVs could dismount two or three crew men to engage bunkers with M-16s and grenades. That would leave the driver and track commander to maneuver the vehicle and fire the .50. Haponski, One Hell of a Ride,  p 290

NVA in bunkers were immune to artillery fire unless it was a direct hit or nearly so. Haponski, One Hell of a Ride,  p 298

The NVA bunkers in the March 30, 1969 Michelin Plantation battle were L shaped with the firing port at one end of the L and the entrance at the other. Flanking them the .50s on the tracks kept Charlie's head down. The .50s would penetrate through the logs and dirt of the overhead cover. As the tracks would pass by a gunner would lean over and drop a grenade down inside the bunker. Some of the track crew could be on the ground tossing grenades in the bunkers.  The bunkers rose two or three feet above the ground. Haponski, One Hell of a Ride,  p 304-305.

Steel planks with four layers of sandbags on top were impervious to mortar or artillery rounds. Albracht, Abandoned in Hell, p 78

To be continued...
Tom

Holy crap Tom, LOVE this installment!

As usual, can't wait for the next installment.

cool stuff

Thanks guys.

Tom

Todd, I think these need there own sub forum and each one setup as a sticky they are so good.

Next round:
CAR-15
CAR-15 generated four times the ballistic lethality of a Swedish K’s 9mm. Plaster, Secret Commandos, p. 131

CAR-15 reloaded twice as fast as the AK-47. Plaster, SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars, p. 141

CARGO TRUCKS
Canvas covers were usually removed in Vietnam to speed up the loading and unloading and also to haul oversize cargo. Rottman, Vietnam Gun Trucks, page 28

Slugs ripped through the door of a 3/4 ton truck wounding an occupant in the legs. Hymoff, The First Air Cavalry Division in Vietnam, p 127

CLAYMORE MINES
Claymores were placed just 5 meters away, on the reverse side of trees to absorb the backblast. Plaster, SOG: A Photo History of the Secret Wars, p.. 207

COBRA GUNSHIPS
Detailed descriptions of Cobra weapons, ammunition, etc. Rosenburgh, Snake Driver, p. 50, pb

Tactics used by a pair of Cobras against .51 HMG. Rosenburgh, Snake Driver, pp. 148, pb

It was not uncommon to deliver Cobra fire within fifty meters of a SOG team, even twenty meters for minigun fire. Plaster, Secret Commandos, p. 85

COMBAT RANGE
Combat range usually less than 20 meters. Arnold, Tet Offensive 1968, p 30

NVA considered the space 200-300 meters from the FWF's lines to be safe from artillery and fighter bombers as they would only be used closer than that in extreme conditions. Within that area, commonly their only danger was from enemy on the ground and helicopters. Haponski, One Hell of a Ride, p 277

COMPOUND, ARVN
ARVN compound at Pleiku had an earth berm not designed to stop tanks. Zumbro, Tank Sergeant p 138

COMPOUND, U.S. ADVISORY
Advisors team hootch-almost white corrugated tin walls and roof. The walls do not meet the roof, but rather are fastened to vertical studs, leaving about 18" of open space between the walls and the roof. Moraldi, Uniforms and Equipment of U. S. Military Advisors in Vietnam, p. 48

In 1965 the advisory compounds centered around a patchwork of French style Vietnamese buildings, prefabricated American structures, and various types of troop constructed shelters. None of the compounds could have withstood a determined enemy attack. Moraldi, Uniforms and Equipment of U. S. Military Advisors in Vietnam, p. 55

Another round of useful info. Thanks Tom!

The one above this I posted just minutes ago was pretty short. Here's more:

CONVOY CASUALTIES FROM RPGS
AN RPG hit the driver side door. The truck lumbered out of control to the left side of the road. The driver was wounded but apparently survived. Killblane, Convoy Ambush Case Studies, Volume One, page 32.

An RPG hit where the door met the windshield killing the driver. Killblane, Convoy Ambush Case Studies, Volume One, page 36.

An RPG hit the fuel truck, mortally wounding the driver and setting it on fire. He drove 2 miles to the checkpoint, stopped his truck, jumped out and fell. Killblane, Convoy Ambush Case Studies, Volume One, page 41.

A gun jeep was hit by a B–40 rocket, killing the driver and wounding the other two occupants. Killblane, Convoy Ambush Case Studies, Volume One, page 60

A gun truck was destroyed by an RPG in an ambush that killed its driver. Killblane, Convoy Ambush Case Studies, Volume One, Page 68.

A RPG hit a glancing blow off the driver’s door of the middle gun truck but it blew the hood halfway off hanging on only by one of the hinges on the windshield. Shrapnel also peppered the fender. The driver kept driving out of the kill zone. Killblane, Convoy Ambush Case Studies, Volume One, page 71.

A gun truck was hit with an RPG right in the hood. It then rolled into a ditch where it remained and put up a fight. There is no mention of any casualty in the vehicle. Killblane, Convoy Ambush Case Studies, Volume One, page 78.

A driver was wounded by an RPG that hit the cargo bed just behind his cab. Killblane, Convoy Ambush Case Studies, Volume One, page 78.

An RPG hit a reefer and stopped it in the road. No mention of casualties. Killblane, Convoy Amber's Case Studies, Volume One, Page 83.

An RPG slammed into the front portion of the gun box. The impact knocked a gunner’s feet out from under him but he did not let go of the machine gun. Killblane, Convoy Ambush Case Studies, Volume One, Page 89.

The second RPG exploded on the gun box and wounded the previous gunner who continued to function. However, two other men were blown out of the gun box and another was wounded in the stomach. They all needed a medevac. Killblane, Convoy Ambush Case Studies, Volume One, Page 89.

The Misfits' gun box took three hits from RPG's yet one gunner still continued to put up a fight. Killblane, Convoy Ambush Case Studies, Volume One, Page 91.

An RPG hit the right front tire and fender of Creeper. No mention of casualties. Killblane, Convoy Ambush Case Studies, Volume One, Page 99.

Three RPG rounds were fired at a gun truck. One hit the top corner of the passenger side of the gun box. The blast wounded three crew members and killed a fourth. The gun truck was disabled, presumably from the blast rather than the loss of the driver as no driver casualty was mentioned. Killblane, Convoy Ambush Case Studies, Volume One, Page 113.

An RPG flew at an angle through the cab and hit the fuel tank trailer behind. The driver jumped out of the cab but jumped back in to set the handbrake. The fuel tanker blew up killing him. Killblane, Convoy Ambush Case Studies, Volume One, Page 115.

An RPG slammed into the driver’s side of The Protector killing a gunner and blowing the rest of the crew out. Killblane, Convoy Ambush Case Studies, Volume One, Page 125.

An RPG hit the gun box right under a gunner, killing him instantly. Shrapnel and concussion of the blast knocked another gunner to the side of the wall wounding him. A second RPG came through the right front wheel, slammed into the engine and took out a piston. The engine locked up and the truck lurched into a nosedive. Killblane, Convoy Ambush Case Studies, Volume One, Page 129.

An RPG hit the right front rear duals and the truck bounced. It kept going about 25 yards before the engine shutdown. Killblane, Convoy Ambush Case Studies, Volume One, Page 130.

An RPG hit the left rear duals and exploded under the left rear gunner, knocking him backwards. No mention of him actually being wounded. Killblane, Convoy Ambush Case Studies, Volume One, Page 131.

Sounds like an RPG is a convoy's worst nightmare.

Garryowen you don't need to worry about copyright issues; the segments you are using are far, far too small for that to a consideration.

I had hoped that to be the case Chris. But not knowing where to draw the line, I decided to error on the side of caution. That’s just the goofy way I am.

On the new things I read, it’s not a problem as I just do it when I originally dictate them into my phone. Maybe I won’t rewrite any more of them. Thanks for the suggestion.

Tom

If you're not taking great swathes of a book and charging money, you've really nothing worry about. The key thing is fair. The items you are putting on this forum are brief and for educational/research purposes AND you're not charging money, so that's ticking all the right boxes.

Thanks again.

I would prefer to quote exactly as written. I have often found in my research when I check footnotes that the source quoted says nothing like the author using the quote claims. That disturbs me.

I still have lots to post that I have gone back and reworded once I started posting them on the earlier FoF. In the beginning I did not reword them at all as they were for my own use only.

Just taking them from my Word document and manually adding the bold and italics for this forum (of course they don't carryover from a copy and paste from Word), and proofing for other little typos is time consuming enough. Being the world's worst proof reader doesn't help. I still will miss some typos.

Tom

Here is the next installment:

CONVOY OPERATION AND AMBUSHES
Typical speeds were 25 to 35 mph, faster in high-risk areas. When passing through villages vehicle slowed to 15 mph. Rottman, Vietnam Gun Trucks, page 14

An open column convoy called for 100 m intervals between trucks; often five truck lengths were specified. The vehicles were closed up somewhat on extremely winding roads and at night. Heavier and slower vehicles were placed at the head of the convoy. Sometimes ammunition and fuel trucks were placed at the rear of the convoy as they were likely targets. That way, if halted they would not trap other trucks. Rottman, Vietnam Gun Trucks, Page 15

Armored jeeps had removable 3 inch thick bulletproof glass for the windshield and doors. Rottman, Vietnam Gun Trucks, page 28

Photograph taken outside a highway checkpoint. Rottman, Vietnam Gun Trucks, Page 16

In very dangerous areas an Air Force forward air controller aircraft might be airborne to coordinate air cover. If attacked, it would give a call for Air Force close air support. Army scout helicopters might patrol the route and they could bring in gunships. Entire route could be covered by artillery from different firebases. Such overwhelming fire support was only called upon during a heavy ambush, if a gun trucks could not handle it. Rottman, Vietnam Gun Trucks, Page 17

Enemy made extra effort to destroy ammunition trucks and fuel tankers. Where roadside concealment permitted, the enemy would employ sappers for close in attacks with RPG's, grenades, and demolition charges. Rottman, Vietnam Gun Trucks, Page 17

Clearing roadside vegetation started with at least 50 m in width. There were areas in the hills and mountains where the steepness or roughness of the terrain prevented clearing. Rottman, Vietnam Gun Trucks, Page 18

Every gun truck crewman could operate all of the truck's weapons and would rotate as drivers. They were trained to operate radios, perform first aid, call for artillery and air support, and medevac choppers.  Rottman, Vietnam Gun Trucks, Page 11

NCOICs usually manned a gun. Rottman, Vietnam Gun Trucks, Page 11 (However, other sources put them in the box with an M 79.)

If the crew was too small it was impossible to maintain 360° observation, which was critical. At least three were needed in the gun box. Rottman, Vietnam Gun Trucks, Page 11

The NVA were infrequently involved in convoy ambushes. Rottman, Vietnam Gun Trucks. Page 5

DOOR GUNNERS
Discussion of door gunners and how they worked. Sever, Xin Loi, Viet Nam, p. 70-74, pb

FIRE CONTROL
NVA had better fire control than VC. NVA would wait until the helicopters got closer. VC were more likely to fire further away. Mills, Low Level Hell, p 115, pb

VC were in trenches and waited until the Blues were about 20 feet away to open fire. Brennan, Headhunters,  p19, bce

VC were fortified on a little hill with rice paddies all around it. They waited until the U.S. infantry walked right down the middle of a paddy on a little dike and were right up against the VC. The infantry was then pinned down for a quarter mile radius. Brennan, Headhunters, p 93, bce

At Bong Son, the NVA in and around the village, let the Blue platoon point squad walk right into the village before hitting them. Brennan, Headhunters, p 103, bce

H/75th Rangers waited until all the NVA walked into the ambush zone then opened fire all at once. Brennan, Headhunters, p 104, bce

Ambush by VC/NVA. Often they are conducted at less than 15 m. Garland , Infantry in Vietnam, p 69

FIRE SUPPORT BASES
Two man listening  posts put out 25 meters or so from the perimeter. Haponski, One Hell of a Ride,  p 141

At FSB, the concertina wire was pulled aside at night to let the patrol out through the temporary opening. Haponski, One Hell of a Ride, p 163

Claymore mines were set 50 to75 meters out from the concertina. Haponski, One Hell of a Ride,  p 174

Some listening posts might be 50-75 meters out. Haponski, One Hell of a Ride, p 191

FOXHOLES
Arrangement for USMC company foxholes. Nolan, Death Valley, p. 60, pb

An artillery round with an impact fuse can destroy any bunker or foxhole it lands on. McKenna, Kontum p 178

FLECHETTE ROCKET
The flechette round had thousands of 1 inch steel darts, each capable of penetrating several inches of solid wood. At approximately the halfway point on the flight to the target the rocket warhead exploded in a cloud of reddish smoke releasing a shower of nails traveling at a tremendous velocity. When fired at approximately 3000 feet slant range, the destruction could cover the area of a football field with one flechette per square inch. Yarborough, Da Nang Diary, pp. 127, 128

FRENCH FORTS
Old French fort near Plei Me was triangular with 8-10 foot high crumbling mud walls. Firing positions and steps were also crumbling. Moore and Galloway, We Were Soldiers Once and Young, p 34

GREEN HORNETS
The UH-1N was a twin-engine utility version that came in in 1970. They were converted to a 1P gunship. Confusingly, this states that the aircraft in the museum was converted to a P model in 1969. USAF Museum sign.

Tom

Oh man, that's outstanding work Tom!

Now I want to buy the book Vietnam Gun Trucks. Is that a Squadron-Signal book?

Yes it is. As I said in another post, all of Gordon Rottman’s Vietnam books ate great. You may already know he was in Special Forces in Vietnam.

Tom

Oh the Gun Trucks title I saw from SS was by Timothy J Kutta.

Great stuff , really enjoy this Tom .