6mm Vietnam game - development blog

Greetings all, I'm a long time wargamer, rules writer and publisher - I'm the lead designer of Ostfront Publishing - we primarily do historical wargames with an emphasis on first-hand research, balancing playability with historical accuracy and flavor.

I've been working on a company scale Vietnam game and posting about the progress (as well as my miniatures and terrain for the project) on 2 forums - our own Ostfront Publishing forum, and The Wargames Website.

You can read the devblog here, which explains everything about the game and development so far:
https://www.thewargameswebsite.com/forums/topic/6mm-vietnam-game-devblog/

Here's a taster of some of our miniatures and the cover (although the image scaling on this forum is a bit off - might need to zoom out a bit):










I was wondering, would you folks like to also be updated with progress on the rules (as in, should I crosspost here everytime I make a post on the other sites?) or would you prefer that I just come back when we're ready for playtesting to see if anyone is interested in having a look at the rules, giving feedback, possibly playtesting, etc.

Glad to find a forum dedicated to Vietnam wargaming!

Welcome to the forum! I think the folks will always be interested in updates. We all have a collection of different rules for Vietnam wargaming here. Seems like someone was asking for suggestions on Company scale rules recently too.

Nice looking mini's btw.

Yes, please post updates. Interesting looking project.

Tom

Welcome aboard NK! Yes, updates are always welcome, but please keep them in a single thread. Like this one.

Alright, great - I'll keep you guys in the loop

Wow! Incredible detailing for that scale. :O

OTB wrote:Wow! Incredible detailing for that scale. :O

Yeah the GHQ infantry are very nice. I went GHQ for infantry and Heroics & Ros for all the vehicles. H&R vehicles are better bang for buck, and the lower detail doesn't matter so much.

Its certainly not my first 6mm rodeo - have done Soviet-Afghan war in 6mm (for our "Hind & Seek" game), and have done lots of 1/600 aircraft for our various air combat games.

Good progress today, re-arranged the turn order so that there is an Asset phase at the end of the turn rather than rolling to determine what kind of turn takes place - this will keep the flow going and mean players can better manage their assets.

I also implemented a way to favor the assets you want to use, as well as a friction element, having to roll each turn for the asset you want to use until you succeed.

The Asset rules are shaping up as follows:


This way players can focus their attention on getting one asset off, discarding assets they don't want / need. They will still be limited by the available options though.

I have quite a bit of work to do before I can get this to playtesting now, but I think it will be worth it - taking it from a quite static game into something much more fluid and with lots of give and take.

My MO for these next few weeks is to write a small core of simple-as-possible rules in order to playtest these basic mechanics. All the more advanced rules I've already written will be kept aside until the core is running nicely. Things like the weapons tables will stay the same, and its likely things like helicopters and vehicles won't change. I'll mostly be focusing on getting the platoons and infantry working right - which is the core of the game anyhow.

Plenty of work ahead, but well worth it to shape this game into something quicker and more fun - as fun should be at the forefront. If something aint fun, keep changing it until it is.

It looks like you are following a good approach. It is amazing how many different ideas guys can come up with for games. I look forward to reading about your progress withthe rules.

Tom

GarryOwen wrote:I look forward to reading about your progress withthe rules.

Same here.

Glad you guys are enjoying!

Made some good progress over the past few days - the turn structure is sorted, and the detection, attack and casualty rules are nearing completion. I've managed to distill my ideas down to their simplest form (hopefully), and with some help from one of our players (who was instrumental in providing feedback during Hind & Seek) made some great suggestions about how stance should work without having to track anything with markers or suchlike.
The suggestion was to limit how far a unit could move without provoking attacks, and I've done something along the same lines in Cornered Wolf, where my MO was not to use any markers or tokens at all for the entire game. I had to get creative with the suppression rules for that game, and representing stance without markers also calls for simple creative solutions.

And so my solution was to have "Opportunity" attacks and detection if a unit moves while within line of sight of an enemy. Depending on how far they move, they could provoke opportunity detection attempts, or opportunity fire, or both. This is also tied into the Awareness of units - unit that aren't aware won't have the same options for opportunity fire.
The essence of my plan is broken down as follows:


The real core of this game is the detection, attack and casualty rules, with the movement rules tied into these, so now that I've made some good progress on this core, the rest of the rules I've already written will fall into place. I'm not planning to re-write the entire ruleset - just this core in order to simplify and clarify the core rules.

The main thing remaining of this 'core' is how casualties are tracked and when units will start to roll to "Scatter" (which essentially removes them from the game). I'm hoping to make these decisions tomorrow and maybe do some small scale playtests to see if they feel right.

After finishing this 'core', the next step will be to slightly re-word the Support section (Where you used to be able to call in air strikes, request artillery, reinforcements, extraction, etc.) in order to line up with the way Assets are used. I still want players to be adjusting artillery and calling in support, but it will be based on what is available via the Asset cards, rather than choosing any support and rolling each turn to see if it is available.

Making good progress over the past week, have pretty much sorted out the new casualty tracking rules, to fit the smaller new Platoon rosters, and did some very small scale play-testing to see how they worked:

Not even worth setting up a table, just needed to know how 2 platoons going head to head would 'feel' with the new casualty tracking.

I had to really force myself to get to a decision on how these rules would work - the main issue being how KIA and wounded results would work when both are trying to be tracked on the same "Casualty Track" (a track of 10 boxes). Its still not 100%, but I only have a few small decisions to make on it. I also made Suppression a bit more intense - preventing a unit from being able to fire back at all, rather than just making attacks more difficult to 'hit'. This is in line with the ethos on bob's wargame website (which has some superb articles on firepower and infantry combat - well researched from military reports)

Bob's Wargame website (the Essay section):
http://www.testofbattle.com/upload/bob/Essays.htm

And the specific article I'm referring to:
http://www.testofbattle.com/upload/bob/Rules%20of%20Infantry%20Combat.htm

His definition of Suppression is "not being able to fire", and while that's not always the case - it will be my definition for this game as well, for simplicity and because it feels right in-game - when a unit can still fire while "suppressed" it feels like suppression isn't doing very much.

After fixing up these rules, I found myself jumping around the rules (its about 50 pages long) and typing random sections - which is not good. So today I decided I needed milestones in order to get these rules ready for a potential playtest this sunday. I scrawled the following milestones:


And today, I've stuck pretty much exclusively to this list - working primarily on the how the new Support Asset system (drawing cards the correspond to a certain type of support) works with the old "You can request anything" system. I made Medevacs and Requests for Extraction "Always available" as a request, not relying on having the right Asset cards in your hand, while everything else like air strikes, artillery, supply drops etc, would be dependent on which cards you had. Artillery for the US is weighted slightly higher than normal, so it would be more common to draw, as it really was the backbone of most infantry operations.

I tested drawing 4 cards for each faction, and it felt right - so that's a good start.

And I almost forgot, I designed a Time of Day Roundel - for keeping track of the time:

I still need to fix the arrows and borders of the inner areas a bit, but it should be mostly done.

Looks very interesting so far.

It's coming right along. Good work!

Tom

Not knowing how time of day and night really works, might I suggest adding in another section and mid day and another at midnight? This would work good for PvP as the VC and NVA tended to do the "poc time" rest that could allow them to recover fatigue between day-parts, while the US could do more stuff and wear themselves out. Also, you read a lot how "most attacks took place just before sunrise..." (though memoirs don't prove that!), and could extend night time combat and firebase sieges a slight bit more realistically.

Thanks for your ideas Darby - I did initially have more segments to the Time of Day marker, but it only advanced every 4 turns, so took forever to advance through them. I could potentially add more segments and make it more likely to advance (4+ instead of 5+ on a D6), but at the moment it seems to work pretty well, also makes it a bit more unpredictable as to when exactly night will fall, which is in line with the "friction" core gameplay idea.

Over the past week I've been porting Boocoo Fire Mission into Tabletop Simulator, which allows me to playtest with people on the other side of the world. It took some setting up, but with some help from a guy in our Game Design discord server, I was able to get it done within a day or so.

I got the rules typed up, all my re-writes and suchlike, ready for a playtest, and yesterday we actually got a playtest done, using Tabletop Simulator (TTS).

Setting up TTS:

Its hard to find the exact 3D moodels for Vietnam, but Black hawks and Apaches will do fine for Hueys and Cobras respectively.


Nearly complete set up, miniatures and markers imported, just needed to do the Terrain Points

And so with all my rules printed out and TTS set up, I was able to do a test with guy from the US (I'm in NZ) rather than my usual 'real life' playtesting:
The game panned out as follows
US airmobile landed to check a nearby village, and was immediately ambushed and thrown into chaos - most of the squads were pinned down by a combination of mortar and small arms fire (the NLF/VC initially suppressing their own men as well with area mortar fire), and while 1 US squad was able to outflank and hit the NLF pretty hard, the NLF wore down the US platoon, who were unable to call in support (especially after a sniper hit their radio man). The NLF used their opportunity to sprint out of the forest and overwhelm the US HQ, capturing them - A solid win for the NLF!

Some shots of the game:

US units are on the left, while VC/NLF units are on the right, in the treeline. At this point the US were starting to turn things around, suppressing some NLF squads, and outflanking (near the pile of suppression markers).


End of the game, the NLF squads rush the US HQ, capturing it.

As with any early playtest, I took a lot of notes and we made a bunch of changes on the fly. Mortars were toned down, being a bit too powerful, and helicopters were found to be far too unwieldy, so today I re-wrote their movement rules to be much more free form when they're not landing. The core mechanics worked pretty well - the fog of war and detection rules were fine, although some clarifications are needed, and the main attack / suppression rules worked fine.

Main concerns from the playtest is that the game is a bit bogged down with placing and removing multiple Suppression markers - I need to simplify this and get things flowing faster, but without losing the dynamics of how suppression works in real life. "Suppression" and "Disorder" both need to be examined and potentially collapsed into a single marker / condition.
The Asset system also needs tweaked to make assets easier to access, as in our game during 6 turns no one could use any support. It should also be simplified, as its overly complex.

Over the past week I've still been reading through Sons of Kolchak, and getting lots of good ideas about how a Company Commander thinks and acts - what kind of things they expect their platoons to do, and how they work to "unpin" platoons that are tied down. I also discovered I should probably distinguish between aimed fire (generally semi-auto) and area suppression (generally full automatic) - one will inflict more casualties, while the other will not, but will keep heads down more effectively.

Another thing I've had brought to my attention (by the same guy who helped me set up TTS) is that the "VC" label is actually derogatory, and that "NLF" - 'National Liberation Front' would be more suitable. I changed all the instances of VC in the ruleset to NLF, and you'll notice I've been trying to use NLF in these reports as well.

The same person also made a good case for including ARVN forces, perhaps as a 1960 - 1968 period force. While I initially wanted to keep things simple with the factions until the game was running smoothly, there's no harm in doing some research - as adding in ARVN and perhaps the various other US allies (As well as NVA) are good additions to the game, once its running well.
And so I skimmed through the Osprey ARVN book, took some notes on weaponry and vehicles used, and also ordered "Vietnam's Forgotten Army: Heroism and Betrayal in the ARVN", which I will read after I finish Sons of Kolchak. It will hopefully give me a good insight into ARVN operations, as its an aspect of the war that is often ignored in the west and a very important aspect of the war. As games are a good way to teach people, it is my duty as a game designer to get the names of factions correct (usually using their point of view, rather than the opponents), as well as representing important factions and giving players the ability to game important battles. The ARVN forces have enough difference to be distinguished from the US, as they generally used M-2 Carbines and WW2 era scout cars and half tracks until around 1968 when things started getting phased out in favor of M113s, Chaffees, and M-16s. They also had very limited Artillery and helicopter support at times.

Had a great playtest last Saturday, which was very illuminating and helped me simplify a lot of the mechanics down, and clarify a bunch of things. As this game is Company scale - some things just aren't so much in the scope of your control, and I've had to choose the things that matter, and remove and clutter.


The playtest in action - the US this time holding out much better, using Artillery preparation combined with an airmobile landing, then calling in cobra support to keep the heads of the NLF down.

I've spent the past week going through my notes from the playtest, doing some small scale tests and working out some of the new mechanics. Today I put all the markers and unit rosters into the ruleset, as well as adding a table of contents, and I'm at the point where I can offer the rules for playtesting for anyone who is interested.

IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN PLAYTESTING

Give me an email at:

thespidersrepublic@hotmail.com

and I'll send you a copy of the rules.

Since university is back for the semester, I'll need to focus on my studies for the rest of the year, but since most of the heavy lifting for this ruleset is done (I'm at a point where I could almost release - just need to type a few description texts), It will be easy enough to make the (hopefully) small changes based on playtesting feedback. I also have another playtest planned this weekend, so if that goes well I might start to think about releasing.

I've had to kill a few darlings in order to get the game in shape - Civilians are gone, fatigue is gone, and the suppression and attack system has been significantly simplified (although still feeling realistic). I spent today making sure my lexicon for the rules is correct - that words are capitalized consistently and that redundant terms and and rules from older versions are removed. There is likely still some proof-reading to do, but I think I'm most of the way there.

Its been a good couple of weeks for these rules, typing up and editing, getting things straightened out and making sure things like capitalization are consistent.

I made some example firefight images, showing how things work, which is always a good idea:


I've started reading "Vietnam's Forgotten Army: Heroism and Betrayal in the ARVN", which is giving me some insights into the ARVN and their operations - lots of interesting information, although not too much on the actual battles, mostly on organization and the challenges involved with things like the "Struggle Movement". Interesting to note that the ARVN had a dedicated airmobile "Hac Bao" Company, which were elite and used US helicopters to get into battle, and that they could fit up to 12 solders into a Huey, rather than the US 6 or 7.

We also had our first real-life playtest since the lockdown, so it was good to get the miniatures out!

The game involved the "Cat & Mouse" mission, where 2 forces are stalking each other and on a direct collision course. The battle started at night, with both sides unsure where the enemy was. An NLF/VC light machinegun detachment stumbled into a US platoon in the dark, and was able to set up on their flanks, then open fire- causing chaos with the US platoon.

A 2nd NLF platoon then deployed nearby, but was having trouble working out where the US were due to night time and the terrrain.


The US platoon was able to work out where the fire was coming from, and starting directing mortar and small arms fire into the LMG teams on their flank, but snipers in the trees caused the entire platoon to be suppressed for a short time...


At dawn the US had a surprise of their own, with a heavily armed platoon outflanking the NLF platoon, getting close enough to throw grenades and causing a lot of casualties.


A 2nd NLF platoon then assaulted the rear of the US 1st platoon, running across open ground and taking some opportunity fire from the US in their forest night position. The US redeployed some squads to meet this new threat, while others were still trying to overcome the disorder of the initial attack.
US 1st platoon commander attempted to call in gunship support, but couldn't get through on the radio...


The game was very fun and interesting, both playesters enjoyed and it flowed nicely. Still some kinks to work out, and the terrain rules could use some clarifications, but I feel like we're getting closer to release. The game definitely needs a quick reference sheet, and now that the mechanics are pretty solid, I will look at doing that.

I will write up another mission (a rescue mission) and perhaps a Firebase assault mission, and the game should be pretty much good to go.

So far 5 people have contacted me about playtesting, I sent them the rules, but haven't had any replies about their thoughts (yet). This could be a good or a bad thing!

I will need to focus on my studies for the next few months, but I should still find time to type a few things up, and do playtesting every 2 weeks or so.

Looks interesting. So far my Vietnam gaming has been near the other end of the scale with 20mm 1:1 figures and FNG rules. But there are times when I would like to do a larger action. Thus my interest.

I greatly admire you for your efforts to get consistency in your rules. Lack of consistency of terms, capitalization, etc., is one of the biggest shortcomings of so many rules sets.

Tom

I agree with Tom on this. I do eventually want to get into larger scale operations like this because it provides an interesting aspect of Vietnam gaming. More toys too! So I can appreciate the effort you are putting into this. Glad to hear your players seem to be enjoying it.

I was tempted to offer to play-test but right now work has me swamped so my testing efforts would be inconsistent. And I'd have to play with paper counters!

Glad you're enjoying Tom and Rod, hope you find the time to start a project along these lines some day

Making some steady progress over the past week, have typed up the ARVN army list for 1960 - 1968:


As well as typing up the terrain rules in more detail.

I have also done a mock up cover for a potential new title - I'm interested in which people prefer - "Boocoo Fire Mission" or "Khang Chien" (which means "resistance" in Vietnamese):


The book I'm reading Vietnam's Forgotten Army: Heroism and Betrayal in the ARVN is finally getting to some combat descriptions, centering around the 1968 Tet fighting in Hue. This is good inspiration for some potential army lists for city fighting, allowing people to game Hue and other city fights. My plan is to have 2 extra lists available for this purpose:

• 
  ARVN army list with Hac Bao on foot, with 105mm recoilless rifle support (albeit quite expensive as they were rare in the ARVN) as well as more stable air and artillery support.
  
• 
  US Marine list with M50 Ontos, Tanks and 105 recoilless rifles, some mounted on jeeps. (Usual US list does not have tanks or M50 Ontos unless as called in, randomized reinforcements).
  

I also plan on finally splitting up the VC and NVA lists - with VC focusing more on hit-and-run and booby traps, and without fortifications such as bunkers and the more heavy support like anti-air platoons. The NVA by comparison would have no booby traps, more heavy support such as AA platoons (with units like radar-guided 31mm AA cannons and 23mm AA cannons), and fortifications such as bunkers. This would also be the time in the rules where I finally give the VC their SKS rifles rather than AK-47s and give NVA their AK-47s.

The other potential army list might be an ANZAC mechanized company, mounted in M113s in order to distinguish them from the regular US.


Would love to know people's thoughts on potential new names for the game, and if my plans for the army lists sound good.

Sounds interesting. I prefer the first title.

However, Resistance is an interesting title. I guess it could be seen several ways. I see it as South Vietnam resisting the invasion by the North with their puppet VC.

Tom

Did the VC cease to exist as a fighting force after the Tet offensive? would love to know people's thoughts on this, as my sources vary. Some say the VC ceased to exist, some mention them fighting alongside the NVA even after the US left the war...

Actually got quite a lot done over the past 2 weeks: I've typed up the ARVN lists, and added ANZACs, after some reading on the subject.
Very interesting to see how differently they operate to the US (being a New Zealander myself) and their stealth and hunting methods: learn the VC routes, then ambush them for maximum effect. I wrote their army list and assets to reflect this:




I believe having all ANZAC units as elite (around the quality of a US Recon or LRRP squad) makes sense, as their field-craft and discipline was pretty superb from what I've read (even a US recon soldier said he learned a lot from them, even just on a 10 day patrol).

I've also split all the army lists up into periods and factions, to more accurately match each period, so in the early years, there are only VC, while later they get more NVA support, and finally after Tet there are only NVA remaining (although as I mentioned above, I'm not 100% sure about that).

Along with the new lists and splits, come the more varied weapons:


I also added an "AT" column to more easily show a weapon's AT capabilities.

Planned over the next few weeks is to test out some alterations to Infantry attacks, such as causing a target unit to retreat away from the attacker, as well as some bonuses for flanking attacks. Both of these will hopefully give players incentive to move and outflank more, as gameplay tends to be quite static once battle is joined and all the units have deployed (although the terrain point system allows units to outflank nicely). Causing a target squad to retreat could also make for some interesting situations where you flush a unit into a waiting ambush - a tactic I know was used when possible.

Still reading Vietnam's Forgotten Army: Heroism and Betrayal in the ARVN, and learning a lot about the ARVN. Just finished reading about Operation Lam Son 719, which was fought primarily by the ARVN, and had one of the largest airmobile lifts of the entire war (210 helicopters If I recall correctly). It was a bit of a disaster due to the NVA knowing well in advance what was happening, and various ARVN generals losing initiative. Interesting to see the extent of the operations the ARVN conducted though. Their efforts on Hamburger hill also surprised me (ARVN 2/3 were first to the top!).