History of Vietnam Gaming

Over the last three or so years, I've developed an interest in the history of miniatures gaming, and started picking up copies of various books authored by the "founding fathers" of the hobby. As a Cold War era gaming enthusiast, one of the most intriguing things that I have found is a photo in Featherstne's Advanced War Games of a Vietnam game by Z.M. Iwazko circa 1969.

The photos is preceeds page 167 of my 1973 edition of the book, is B&W, depicting M48s and M113s, a howitzer being delivered via helicopter, and infantry on what, even by today's standards, would be excellent terrain. The scale could be 1/72 or maybe even a little larger.

I find the idea of a Vietnam game with that level of modeling detail being played in the late 1960s to be rather fascinating and amazing. From what I gather, Mr. Iwazko was a particularly accomplished "modern" gamer in his day, and have seen impressive photos of WWII games credited as his. He published a set of rules entitled "Modern Rules" that I've seen mentioned around the internet, though without much detail beyond their use of a logarithmic ground scale for ranging.

This is only example of of a Vietnam, or even Cold War era game that I've found in my limited exploration of the subject, and am curious about the rules, figures, source material, etc, used for such games.

Does anyone here have any additional information or know of sources about Mr. Iwazko's or any other "early" Vietnam (or other Cold War) games?

Thanks,
Brian

His vehicles, figures, and probably the Chinook they were coming out of were Roco Minitanks 1/87th scale stuff. That photo was a lightbulb moment for me as an impressionable kid when I saw it in the late 1970s, although it was only in the late 1980s that I began doing Vietnam wargaming.

Vietnam wargaming during the Vietnam War was entirely possible using commercially available figures at the time. Roco Minitanks did all the US equipment and did modern US figures, along with Soviet vehicles. Models useful for Vietnam wargaming were already available from Roco Minitanks in the 1960s:








And this little beauty was first released in 1970:



VC and ARVN would have been easy enough to convert from Airfix Japanese infantry and Airfix WWII US Marines. I am still using Airfix Sheridans (released 1971), and their Centurion tank came out around 1970 too as I recall. Airfix, Hasegawa and Revell (and, among others, Frog) made vehicles and aircraft being used in the war. There were various cheap generic-looking modern US figures around too - what we used to call "Hong Kong figures" in NZ/Australia, and the Americans called "dime store soldiers".

Some of these would look good on tabletops even today, like the Zee Toys MASH sets: http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/ShowFeature.aspx?id=3

All the jungle terrain was easy enough to make then using model railway foliage and flocks, although not as easy as the $2 shop plastic jungles we can make today.

One of the best-known sets of rules at that time was Wargame Research Group's "Infantry Action 1925 to 1975" rules, published in 1972. PDF download: http://www.wrg.me.uk/WRG.net/History/OLDWRG/InfantryAction.pdf

It was followed in 1974 by "Armour and Infantry 1950 to 1975", which was updated to "Armour and Infantry 1950-1985" in 1979 and this was the first set of rules I used for Vietnam in the late 1980s.

I very quickly abandoned these rules as they were mainly aimed at gamers wanting to fight WWIII in the Fulda Gap and were no good for asymmetrical warfare, but they are worth a look to see how the period was being handled. I have no recollection of any specifically Vietnam rules from the 1970s, which is not to say they weren't out there. I hung out at wargames conventions then and the only modern games I saw were NATO/Warsaw Pact in 1/300th scale.

After doing a bit of research, it is my guess that these are probably the earliest Vietnam war game rules, developed by the Advanced Research Projects Agency at the Pentagon in 1966.

The Pentagon's Rural AGILE/COIN Wargame:
https://www.amazon.com/Pentagons-Rural-AGILE-COIN-Wargame/dp/024447902X

The Pentagon’s Urban COIN Wargame:
https://www.amazon.com/Pentagons-Urban-COIN-Wargame-Insurgency/dp/B09XZH8BR1/ref=sr_1_1?crid=9K9UMO3SOW0&keywords=The+Pentagon%27s+urban+COIN&qid=1658213927&s=books&sprefix=the+pentagon%27s+urban+coin%2Cstripbooks-intl-ship%2C352&sr=1-1

I've included Amazon links because they enable you to peek inside.

OTB, Thanks very much for the info, much appreciated.

I didn't realize that the Roco range was that broad, that early on.  I first encountered it in the late 1970s, and only in very limited numbers.  Access to Airfix and other Vietnam compatible models of the time was even more limited until the late 1980s.

My first encounter with Vietnam gaming was in 1982 I believe, where a small group of guys, mostly vets were playing a game at a convention.  My memory is that they were using 1/72 scale infantry and M113s, but they may well have been Roco.  I regret that I have no idea what rules they were using.  To be honest, the group stuck out a bit in the crowd, and most of the other gamers were giving them space.

I was immediately fascinated, went up to the table and started watching the game, when they invited me in.  They were a demonstrative group of guys, loud at times, overtly crude, for example, an eff-bomb was inserted into the middle of every other word, etc, and it was fantastic to be immersed in the group and game, presented such that I felt like I could feel, smell, and taste Vietnam.  The richness of their expereince, shared at the table was intoxicating. I was like sponge absorbing it all; really an amazing experience for a relatively new miniatures gamer.

In 1985 my gaming group was inspired by the movie Uncommon Valor to build a game around it, and run it at a convention that we organized.  Craig Lechner of gaming Models built a prison camp, and I did most of the miniatures and models, and wrote a set of skirmish rules for the game.  We used 20mm Firefight 20 figures from Modelers Mart in Florida.  The game was quite a hit and ran with a full table four times at the convention. The game was more hollywood, than Vietnam, but provided the start for much more serious vietnam games. The only photo I have of the game is below.



Anyway, thanks again for the info and links, I'll explore them all more fully, after work today.

Brian

Oh man, I recall that movie and the effect it had on our "playing war". That prison camp looks amazing! Do you know what became of it?

I actually still have the camp in a box in the basement, but the glue has started to deteriorate, so the towers and some other pieces have started to come apart.  In the original model,  gate was functional, the towers had blown up replacement tops for when that got blasted, all of the roofs came off the buildings, the prisoner cells had removeable screens, and each fence section fit into the base with a peg, so that a fence panel could be pulled out when destroyed.

The original base got badly warped in the late 1980s, and I made a replacement, which I still have.  Most of the games were brutal affairs with a lot of casualties and occasionally, some of the prisoners made it out.  The last time I ran it was in the late 1990s, with a retired navy SEAL commanding the rescue attempt.  It was masterful; his team (I think three players) managed to kill or wound about 40-45 PAVN, rescue the prisoners, and get out with only one KIA.  

Unfortunately, I sold off most of the figs circa 2000, though I do still have the US figs, some pictured on my blog at the link below:

http://irishserb.blogspot.com/2015/10/flashback-20mm-moderns-1982-style.html

This is a GREAT thread Brian. Thanks for posting! I always found the Rocco stuff, being a tad bigger than the traditional 1/100 scale stuff suited alot of the 15mm ranges better. Especially the more robust stuff like Jimmi Flashpoints US Modern Ranger and Taliban types.

Brian, that prison camp is awesome - you should dust it off for another game. I rewatched Uncommon Valor last year and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Bish Iwaszko was certainly a pioneer - he seems to be the starting point for Vietnam wargaming. I don't think Vietnam wargaming took off until the 80s though. My impression is that the modern wargamers in the 70s stayed away from playing Nam because it was such a traumatic event for that generation. Playing NATO versus Warsaw Pact games was more abstract and "clean" even though, paradoxically, they were gaming the end of the world as we knew it. It wasn't until us younger guys came along in the 80s, with our heads full of scenes from Vietnam War films and books, that it took off. For me, the triggering factor was the arrival of the ESCI Vietnam War figures in local model shops in 1987 (a year after they were released - everything took several months to be shipped to NZ in those days). That, combined with the availability of Italeri Hueys and other plastic kits made Vietnam wargaming accessible. Lead figures could be mail ordered but it was an expensive thing to do and I was on a student budget.

Bish Iwaszko also set up the company Miltra, which I only remember from ads in UK magazines like Battle for Wargamers and Military Modelling. He was the first guy to offer WWII Polish, Belgian and French figures, and I think they also made modern figures.

Here's a page from an article on his Vietnam terrain I found on-line - interesting that he has his back wall covered with a blown-up photo to blend in with his tabletop.



Source: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_SH2iJHS2LjA/S2oE06EVwlI/AAAAAAAAF7A/icNYEZ9VGd8/s1600-h/Terrain+p1001.jpg

Info about Miltra: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_SH2iJHS2LjA/SfnYJIAlbAI/AAAAAAAAEL8/kpf8n2HCm0Q/s1600-h/WN+ad+oct+79.jpg

Amazing find OTB!

That's such a cool table... From what I have gleaned on-line, Bish Iwaszko lived in Richmond (South London) and was actively doing Vietnam wargaming with this set-up around 1969 to 1970.

The marching figures in the foreground do look like Roco Minitanks figures (I have some in the stash), as do the M48s (see photo below). I would love to get a closer look at that M113, but Roco Minitanks made them too, and variants, although I never saw an ACAV version. I used my old Roco M113s in the Ap Bac game I did a while back.



PS here's the M113 in its 1960s packaging:

PS there is a guy out there still doing Vietnam wargames with Roco Minitanks vehicles and unpainted plastic figures (ESCI, Orion), plastic army man style. I came across his Website some months ago and now I can't find it

Wow, more awesome finds!

There is a little about him here and the three older posts (link at bttom of blog page) share a pretty spectactular WWII game, but unfortunately nothing on Vietnam.

Thanks again for sharing all of this.

Brian

irishserb wrote:OTB, Thanks very much for the info, much appreciated.

My first encounter with Vietnam gaming was in 1982 I believe, where a small group of guys, mostly vets were playing a game at a convention.  My memory is that they were using 1/72 scale infantry and M113s, but they may well have been Roco.  I regret that I have no idea what rules they were using.  To be honest, the group stuck out a bit in the crowd, and most of the other gamers were giving them space.

I was immediately fascinated, went up to the table and started watching the game, when they invited me in.  They were a demonstrative group of guys, loud at times, overtly crude, for example, an eff-bomb was inserted into the middle of every other word, etc,

I still have the impression that Vietnam wargamers are not your usual bunch. We tend to be less sedate than some gamers.

Here's another page of photos of Bish Iwaszko's terrain and stuff from the links Brian mentioned:



That's more Walker Bulldogs and M48s than you would plausibly need for Nam...  Maybe he did NATO/Warsaw Pact games as well

And the magazine the pics are from is Miniature Warfare May 1968, so he was doing Nam at the time of the Tet Offensive.

Wow, another cool find, I totally missed that page.

On second look, I think that line of M48s has a couple M60s at the tail (hull front) and M103s (turret shape and commander cupola) at the front. He may well have done Cold War games.

Yes, I was wondering about the different machine gun mounts - well spotted!

BTW Even the New Zealand Army only had 10 Walker Bulldog tanks in those days...

Really interesting thread. I can't remember when I started Vietnam gaming but it was with Platoon 20 figures from Britain. The rules were Giac My. I hope I have the second word right. Thinking back, it would have probably have been no earlier than 1975.

Tom

I too started with Platoon 20 figures.The rules I used were Bodycount from Tabletop Games in the UK.Must have been around 1991.

Same here Lilbow! Oh and welcome aboard.

Quite the coincidence that Bodycount was mentioned - my every watchful wargaming buddy has found a copy on-line and has placed a bid on it for me.

I have been doing a bit more research into Vietnam wargaming in the 1960s. Roco Minitanks models were being used by West Point in wargames by the late 1960s, and I came across mention by one graduate who said that when he was there in the early 1970s he had a whole drawer full of them.

Garryowen wrote:Really interesting thread. I can't remember when I started Vietnam gaming but it was with Platoon 20 figures from Britain. The rules were Giac My. I hope I have the second word right. Thinking back, it would have probably have been no earlier than 1975.

Tom

And here's a link to these historic rules, published in 1978:

http://miniatures.de/wargame-giac-my-vietnam.html

And here's some historical info on Platoon 20 figures, which date from around 1987:

https://east-front-miniatures.com/shop-news/platoon-20-history/

PS click on the little right-hand arrow to view further pics from the old Platoon 20 catalogue shown on that page.

The range even had an M113 with riders, a Mutt, a hooch, and Pathet Lao and Khmer Rouge figures. Annoyingly, I can't read the text listing the items. If anyone can get a legible copy, I would be curious to see what other Vietnam stuff was in the range in those days. The range appears to be back in production now too (circa 2021 according to this site).

With few exceptions, I don't use their US figures anymore, but some of their NVA were pretty good and are still in my units.

Tom

Just noticed this on Bob Cordery's blog, John Curry has released a collection of Paddy Griffith's writings relating to Vietnam gaming, called "BATTLE IN THE VIETNAM WAR: INCLUDING BUCKLE FOR YOUR DUST AND OTHER WARGAMES".  More about this on Bob's blog at:

https://wargamingmiscellany.blogspot.com/2023/04/battle-in-vietnam-war.html

and here:

http://www.wargaming.co/recreation/details/pgbattlenam.htm

and available at Amazon here:

https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Vietnam-War-Including-Wargaming-ebook/dp/B0BXBL4B4Z

Thought it might be of interest.

irishserb

Nice find!

I just ordered that book today. Thanks for the tip Irishserb.

Tom