Help - Service support units French terminology confusing a Brit

Okay so I confess confusion

Can someone please explain the difference in the sentence below between 'du ravitaillement' and 'de l’approvisionement' with reference to a 1940/45 organisation chart.

For example
     'La Compagnie Hors-Rang est chargé du ravitaillement, de l’approvisionement, du dépannage et du soutien sanitaire'

I believe it reads

    The Services Company supplied Re-supplies, Supplies, Repairs (Workshop?) and Medical Service

The title of each section seems tied to its role but what is that specialist function, particularly the two supply ones?

It is difficult to translate these unit titles due to differences in doctrine for control of Combat Support functions. For example I'm thinking the PC/Etat Major roughly equate to HQ Company and this Compagnie Hors-Rang matches the function of British Battalion's Administrative Company but at Regt level.  Further doctrinal confusion comes from the French having a Heavy Weapons Company at both Bn and Regt level but the British holding only Mortars at Bn level other weapons at Division. Although, interestingly that was clearly seen as a shortfall since many British Division once in action formed Brigade Weapons Companies which could have a mix of ATG and MG Pls

Not very exciting I know but intriguing

 

John

The "compagnie hors-rang" dates from at least WWI and its job was handling logistics, administrative duties, and command & control infrastructure (particularly repairing and maintaining telephone links in the trenches), along with engineering, weapons maintenance etc.

The unit breakdown on this page gives a fairly good idea of the various roles it played - it even had a musical band!

http://www.fortiffsere.fr/armee1914/index_fichiers/Page1646.htm

Ravitaillement generally refers to the supply of expendables like food and ammunition, while approvisionnement is supply of things like uniforms, equipment etc. The latter can also be translated as "procurement".

Notwithstanding any nocturnal activities I had a look at some footnotes on French Organisations and realised most of the 'trades' were in the approvisionement section wereas the  ravitaillement had people trained in explosives handling and such.

It maybe an oversimplification but  ravitaillement seems to be combat consumables for immediate use, approvisionement handles everything else and storage/warehousing.

Thanks for the pointer

I now know who the intellectual guys on this forum are. 

At least I know who two of them are. Not to offend anyone, I realize there may be more.

I just know this was over my head.

Tom

Agree with the above, in that ravitaillement tends to mean supply (ammo, fuel, food), whereas approvisionement tends to mean stores and procurement.

When it comes to working out French high-level organisation, it is a path that leads to madness. Operating on the other side of the planet from their home base, fighting the war on a shoe-string, the niceities of a formal doctrine and TO&Es generally went out the window. It was relatively common - even within a platoon - for major organisational changes to be made, based on how many officers and NCOs were available, and how many men and weapons were present on the day.

But that's what makes Indochina such fun!

Tim

Thanks for the help all. I'm getting a real sense of the proper meaning now.

Honestly Gen. Castries all armies improvise once in combat, even the very regular British. One only has to read Jarry's 18 Platoon to see this happening all the time and there are other examples, which could easily fill a thread of their own

Again great help, Ta

John